Hei Hu Quan. Thanks for the correction. Was just off the top of my head. Haven't read anything about him in quite a few years. So, 77, yes? Right around the time when Sen. Kennedy was heading the House Senate Committee Investigation on Assassinations? The public was finally made aware of the existence of the MKULTRA Program along with DELTA, NAOMI and the rest. The footage I've seen of Richard Helms really pissed me off. A contemptuous arrogant bastard. Gottlieb still fascinates me. Archetypal mad scientist, but that is not funny. As to Sirhan, very good point my friend. I still think about his fate, and am truly sorry for that man. He never hit Robert Kennedy. Look what happened to Dr. Thomas Noguci. I think the Agency had become so uncaring about craftmanship at that point by hiding behind plausible deniability they didn't care. They were already beyond control then. 52 years ago. As for a serious break in the programming, that's obvious. They Agency is protected. They are an inhuman institution and do not fucking care who k ows about programming. Any remaining documentation is so redacted it is useless. What I know about Sirhan's life and upbringing shows what a poor choice he was for a patsy. Again, no fucking care or concern for craftsmanship. Pathetic. All of this is, including the procedures used to dissuade people from seeking the truth. We're familiar with the three steps; questioning someone's sanity, imprisoning them, and when that fails, making sure they commit suicide- even if that person doesn't agree with that. No mention that I heard of 2 years ago about re examining the RFK assassination. Was hoping after 50 years...anyway, like Cronenberg put out in VIDEODROME: North America is getting weak etc. Take a good look at it now. I don't have access to my library, so I apologize for any mistakes as far as dates and spelling. My memory is pretty good though. This is the place I head to now for intelligent discussion and raw data even. Just glanced at George from Cavdef's 1004 file from Washington state. Ho ho. No joke. Holy shit. The conspiracy that has protected the serial killer program is very real and leads to the White House. I was told by someone that even William Colby had a change of heart, and was going to come clean about the Franklin Scandal, not Phoenix though. This man's exact words regarding his involvement in Phoenix was, "He was a sick sonofabitch" and he had seen alot in his day. I'm doing this off my phone and its taking forever. Why is Sirhan still alive? He will never be paroled as he shows no remorse for the assassination its said. The coup de grace was from behind courtesy of Eugene Thane Ceasar. Too many bulletholes. Evidence destroyed, an innocent man's life ruined, last chance America had for a true Leader. Oh FUCK THE CIA. Really. I never bought their bullshit excuses for what they do, and never will. At least JFK had the balls to stand up against them, calling them out, and then firing Dulles and Cabell. It took Robert 5 years to recover from that. He was no idiot. He was probably more brave than John even. He knew he would never live to see his children grow up, but he wouldn't give in to fear and intimidation. Martin King as well. Bill Culpepper put it together. I don't have much knowledge of that case, but James Earl Ray was obviously a patsy. J. Edgar Hoover and Army Intelligence. Possibly Agency corraboration. I think I could have typed this from my head in 10 minutes on a keyboard. Very frustrating. Thanks for the feedback Brother. Do keep in touch. Some agile minds and critical thinking here. Definitely not you tube. Thank God for small favors, right? Stay well- W.